PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Jessica: 00:00 Hey, everybody we’re back. And I have Randall with me today. And we are going to be talking about something that honestly, if we’re being really transparent, Randall and I have struggled with over the past 10 years of running VisCul. And I feel in the past year, we’ve really started to get a handle on it. But we’re going to be talking about firefighting, and no, not the kind that you need a hose for, and mission creep for that matter. And, it’s one of those things that I feel like as leaders, as well as people who are consulting with other organizations on a regular basis, we’re constantly being reactive instead of proactive. And we’re constantly putting out fires on a daily basis, and we’re constantly tweaking ourselves from one way to another way, and not really moving in a straight line. Instead, it’s just this curvy windy path, and it’s not directly within the mission. And unfortunately that’s what keeps things from happening rapidly.

Welcome to the Fork and Lens  podcast, brought to you by VisCul. Smells delish.

So let’s start with the whole proactive versus reactive mindset. I know that we’ve operated very reactively in the past, and I feel like in the past year, we’ve really gotten a handle on that. We’ve been a lot more proactive with our team. And there’s still some places where we struggle with that. But at the end of the day, I think we’ve noticed a huge difference in being more proactive than reactive.

Randall: 01:45 Yeah, for sure. I think it’s something where we’ve always said, “Okay, whatever project comes in, if there’s something that comes in, we’re going to react to it, we’re going to try to get it done to the best of our abilities.” And for the most part we’ve always been able to accomplish something. But I think we’ve definitely tried to change the way we do things a little bit, so that whenever something comes in, we can have a plan on how to execute that better. We’re not as reactive in the moment, but we know exactly what process and what steps we’re going to go through to achieve a positive outcome for that project.

Jessica: 02:20 And also what questions to ask the client upfront, so we’re not backpedaling and saying, “Okay, I know we have this. Can we have that? What do you want for this? What do you want for that?” But instead of just having a kickoff conversation and reviewing all the questions that usually come up in that type of project from the very start. And that way we don’t have five different people asking us questions throughout the process, and then it looks like we totally forgot something along the way, or it puts us back in terms of time schedule. It’s a snowball effect constantly if you’re not proactive from the very start.

Randall: 02:51 Yeah. And of course, a lot of it is just trying to figure out what we know, having talked to the customer, the client. And what we don’t know, are the two things for us. And then also, how do we translate that back to the team so that they can do their jobs effectively? I think there’s so many times where we walk out of a meeting, and you just forget to tell everything that you know out of that. And you think you did, but not to the detail that maybe was necessary in order to achieve a positive outcome.

Jessica: 03:20 Well, and what I have found, and this is where our team doesn’t like me, but I have found that putting systems in place and checklists in place, to facilitate those conversations, really help. And not everyone wants to follow those, it takes a while to get in the rhythm of using them. But at the same time, being able to walk out of a meeting and remind someone, just think like, do I have everything? Do I have any questions? Is there anything else I need from the client? And thinking through that within the first couple of hours, versus two weeks from now is really beneficial.

Randall: 04:00 Yeah. And I also think … I don’t want to put this all on us, the agency. I think there are times whenever the closer we work with our clients, the less reactive the overall project needs to be, because we’re we’re stepping in as a partner with them and we’re saying, “How can we plan better with you in the future? How can we work side-by-side with this brand to understand what’s coming up, and how we can be a part of that so that we can plan ahead?” We can get ahead of it. We can do research around it. We can put the right things in place, so that when it comes time to execute on that work, we already have a lot of the process done. So we don’t need to be as reactive.

Jessica: 04:36 Well. And a lot of that comes through in having routine conversations with your agencies. So, something that we try to do, especially with larger clients, is to have a regularly scheduled meeting with them where we’re reviewing the projects. What’s the status on them? What are things that we still need in order to meet the deadlines that are in place? And also to just find out what are some of the conversations that are happening internally, and little bites that might influence the work that we are doing on a regular basis. So if it’s something that, there’s direction that they’re going in, in terms of a campaign for the entire year, or initiatives that are really coming to the forefront, that they want to make sure that they’re prioritizing. It allows us to be able to think forwardly about that and make recommendations, rather than them putting a brief on our laps, and us being “Okay, where did this come from? Because it feels like left field.”

Randall: 05:32 Yeah. And it can also be difficult in a … We’re coming out of a lot of unrest in our country right now, and in the world. And I say, coming out of hopeful, but these things are going to come up. We’re a small agency. We’re able to react to these things really quickly. But the reaction part is only a piece of it. The more that you can do as an organization to put all your thoughts together and really understand what it is you want to achieve in this marketing effort, is going to make all the difference. Because you can go at something and you can say, “We need to put something out.”

Jessica: 06:11 Right.

Randall: 06:11 And then we say, “Okay, let’s put something out.” And then we all react together, and we do things at the end. You think to yourself, we can’t put this thing out. So, it’s making sure that in some way, shape or form, there is a path to success. And the earlier we can try to figure that out, the sooner and the better that work will be.

Jessica: 06:31 I agree. And it’s one of those things that, that’s where it kind of delves into that mission creeped as well, because if you’re constantly being reactive and you’re having to very quickly turn things around, you aren’t able to put it through the lens of, is this one brand, is this in the right voice? Is this still aligning with the values and the mission of the organization? Are we still staying true to who we are at the core? Because a lot of the times it goes off into these little tangents. And that’s not to say, because I think that can be misconstrued for saying everything needs to be matchy, matchy, and cookie cutter and canned all the time. And that’s not the case at all, but instead it means to feel cohesive. It doesn’t have to be matchy, matchy, but it needs to feel cohesive.

There’s things about you as a person that people can look at that and say, “That is John. That is Suzy.” And those traits are what make you a person, that’s what makes you have a personal brand. But when you start to encompass the voice of someone else, or the style of someone else, or the flavor of something else, then it’s no longer on brand. And people are going to recognize it right away. It comes back to that authenticity thing. Consumers are just way too smart to be blindsided by it.

Randall: 07:56 Yeah. And I like what you said, it doesn’t have to be matchy, matchy. I think it’s okay to take risks. It’s okay to put things out there that you’re questioning. It’s okay to question things, I guess, is what I’m trying to say. But always do that gut check, step back and say, “Is this working? Does this feel like us?” Or if we’re trying not to feel like us, and we’re trying to do something different, like putting out a new piece of brand work that is pushing us in a different direction, then that’s very purposeful. But make sure that it’s coming from a place of understanding, so that you know where you’re headed when you’re putting things out.

Jessica: 08:32 And something that we’ve come to realize is that a lot of people, especially when you’re working in a bigger organization, or even a small team for that matter, there are cooks in the kitchen. There are multiples of you. And some people can be pushing one agenda, while the others are trying to push another agenda. So there needs to be a map drawn up of, this is our voice. This is who we are. This is the look and of the brand. This is the message that we put out. These are our values that everyone has to abide by, because otherwise all of a sudden … We’ve seen it in bigger organizations where creative concepts we’ll get through creative review and everywhere else.

And then it gets tagged by another team, and it completely gets squashed at the last minute. Or you also have people who have different value systems as individuals within your team and say, “I want to push this agenda.” But someone else says, “But I don’t feel like we should push that agenda.” And it becomes a point of conflict. So that’s another thing with mission creep, is someone might have their own personal style and want that to be the brand, whenever leadership and the brand as a whole has a style that has already been dictated. So it’s not up to them to change it, but rather work within the confines of the style that’s already been established.

Randall: 09:51 Yeah, I totally agree. And I also think, in light of COVID and everything that has been happening, I think it’s also okay that you can pivot and change, and your agency can ride along with you in that. We saw a lot of brands that’s focused mainly on selling to wholesale, to restaurants, and grocery store chains and things like that. And they’re still selling things to the grocery store chains, but they’re wholesale to restaurants obviously fell off. Restaurants weren’t open, they weren’t doing nearly the volume they were. So they had to try to pivot. Well, you can work with your team right away to make sure that you have an online presence that you’re pushing those things from a marketing standpoint.

And you’re able to figure out exactly how to go about that as quickly as you can. That may seem reactive, but at the same time, sometimes you have to react to the market. And again, the sooner you can figure out how you want to do that and what you want your messaging to be, and even decide if this is going to be a longterm thing, or if this is just something you’re doing temporarily. Those could all be marketing tactics on how you’re going to reach that audience, and do it in a way that reacts to the market, but isn’t reactive in an overall feeling of what it is that you’re doing.

Jessica: 11:04 Right. I think about a lot of the social issues that have been happening. And someone very wise made the comment of, “You can take action, and that is being reflective internally. And making sure that you’re aligned specifically, so what the values are that you are holding yourself to, and what your employees and your consumer base are holding yourself to. And then there’s a place of activism.” And I feel like the same thing happens with brands itself. And you have to get the internal right before you can get the external right. And it just goes back to making sure that everyone is aligned, moving in the right direction. The ship is all headed to the right harbor, and not to multiple harbors along the coast. Because, I’ve heard the analogy of, if a ship leaves a port and is one degree off, they can end up instead of New York and in Florida. And it’s the same reality with mission and creative and brand.

Randall: 12:07 Yeah, absolutely.

Jessica: 12:08 So, how do you make sure that, that’s happening? I think that’s one of the things that when you get caught up in the day-to-day, and you’re constantly firefighting, and you’re constantly putting out all these different things, and addressing all the little problem areas, you aren’t able to back away to that 10,000 foot view and look at what is happening. Is everything aligned? Is everybody working together in the same direction, or is one team off here and another team off there, or is the CEO going in one direction and marketing’s going in another? No matter your organization, this can happen. So one of the things that we have found is being able to step away on a regular basis. And for us, it’s a monthly basis for a very small window of time, but especially on a quarterly basis, we step away for a good day, and reflect upon everything that’s being put out, what are the next things that need to be put out, and how do we make sure that it’s staying on brand? And that is producing content and creative that is purposeful.

Randall: 13:21 Yeah. I really believe in taking a step back, like you said, and just taking a bigger look at the full picture. I know that can be easier said than done sometimes, we’re all very busy. In our agency we’ve taken the approach of having Jessica be able to do that more often than I can, for the most part. But we do take time together, and we really try to figure things out and how we’re going to go about our next steps, what we’re going to do. But I also think it’s important for a company to have leadership do that, but then also your middle management, and just everybody just taking a break, occasionally, take a day, take a half a day, take an hour, take something and just-

Jessica: 14:04 Take your team out and do it together.

Randall: 14:07 Yeah, absolutely. Just take a step back and say, “Okay, we need to get out of the environment that we’re in.” I was going to say office, but nobody’s been in an office for a while. But even so, that’s a good opportunity right there to say, “We haven’t been together for a long time, truly together. Let’s go somewhere and figure out how to get together.” Even if it is just happy hour over the internet. Some teams, no matter how hard they try, they’re spread all over the world.

Jessica: 14:07 Right.

Randall: 14:35 But I think it’s important to do that. The other thing I think is important to think about, is big brands don’t make brand shifts that quickly. And even if the leadership has this grand idea that came to them on a weekend retreat, they can’t just flick a switch.

Jessica: 14:47 Not at all.

Randall: 14:49 And I think that can be a really, really big challenge for brands, because somewhere along the line, there’s going to be an in between moment. And you’re going to say, “Okay, we know where we’re headed, but we’re still back here. I want to make all this new content for this, but we’re still back here.”

Jessica: 15:04 “But we still had to put stuff out today and tomorrow.”

Randall: 15:07 Yeah. So I think having a really good strategy, not just for where you’re going to end up, but how you’re going to transition, whether it’s an all at one time, or it’s incremental. Having a plan to do that, so that your team knows what to do, how to talk, what to say if they’re speaking at an event, or if they’re just putting brand content out there. What is the plan to get you to where you want to go?

Jessica: 15:31 I agree. And one of the things that one of our clients did, and this was pre-COVID, but it’s totally COVID compliant, if you will. But she took her team for a day, they were getting away to be able to brainstorm about upcoming campaigns. And she took them for a day out kayaking. And I think that’s something really important to consider, is that for creatives to be creative, and even for strategic thinkers to be strategic, you have to pull them out of their normal environment to help them think differently. And so, she recognized that, and pulled them out of the office for a day. They went kayaking, they had a picnic, they talked about strategies moving forward. And it just takes the pressure off a little bit. Like usually you go into those days, “My word, we have so much to accomplish.” But just starting out the day with a little bit less pressure on and relaxing, and just socializing, allows some of those creative and strategic juices to flow.

Randall: 16:39 Yeah, I agree. I think another step to take, if you’re a smaller company, obviously you may be the marketing team and the production manager, and the ownership. You can be so many different hats in small companies. And I think we talk about firefighting and being reactive and things, there’s so many different things. You could put out a piece of brilliant non-reactive marketing campaign, and then all of a sudden your sales skyrocket, and then you have to react to that. And then the next thing you know, you’re reacting to another campaign to continue that success.

I just think if there’s anything you can do to step back, develop a plan, this is getting ahead of it, figuring out how you want to do it, and then executing on that. And knowing that you’re going to have to go in waves where you go back and forth between all their different hats, but maybe there’s a plan to how you can execute them, so they go in a cycle. And none of them ever really drop off, you just keep running and you hit this one, you hit that one. And because you have this plan and you’re executing on it, you don’t have this crazy drop-off, and you can continue to just moving in a cycle.

Jessica: 17:52 Right. It should never be feast and famine.

Randall: 17:54 Right. Obviously things happen. Like I said, we’ve talked about a couple of times here is that COVID happened. That was a big change in a lot of the food world and what we do. But I do think even if you had a plan ahead of time on how you were going to continue to do things, you can, you can change that even pretty dramatically, but still have a plan that you can keep working through.

Jessica: 18:16 You can. And that’s one of those things that you don’t want, the feast or famine. And something that I think we’ve realized, is that you have to work on your own stuff as much as you have to work on your client’s work. Or if you’re a marketing department, all the different initiatives, you have to maintain equal emphasis on all of them, so that you’re constantly filling the buckets of content, or your sales funnel, or whatever position you find yourselves in. If you’re just focusing on one thing and then jumping to the other, and then jumping to the other, but it’s like on a week by week basis, then you’re not really doing your due diligence to make sure all pools are filled every single day. And so you have to think about how do you weigh out all of the different things that need to get done, and make sure that all those cups are remaining full throughout the cycle of creative, or management, or whatever your circumstances are.

Randall: 19:17 Yeah. And I also firmly believe in putting the right people in place to help you execute on those different stages. There’s no way you can do it all yourself. In fact, in this season we talked to Toni Calderon, and she talks about having the people around her. And to me, that’s something that even in our agency, we’ve put some amazing people in place just to execute work, and do it at such a high level work that I can’t accomplish.

Jessica: 19:45 No, you have to have people on your team who own the work, own the brand, own the mission of it, and can hold themselves accountable to timelines and deadlines, and the quality that you want to have done.

Randall: 20:01 Absolutely.

Jessica: 20:02 And whether you’re a large organization, you’re a small organization, or you’re yourself looking for someone else to join you in the marketing space, that is key in all circumstances. All right. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate you joining us today, and we will be back soon. Take care.

Randall: 20:24 Bye-bye.

Jessica: 20:47 Now go and grab yourself a drink, because every drink is better shared. Feel free to share with your team, colleagues and friends. If you enjoyed today’s message, please subscribe to get weekly access to new recipes for creative and marketing success. You can also check us out at forkandlens.co or viscul.co. Until next time.