Here’s the campaign we’ll be discussing today:
https://www.adweek.com/creativity/apples-get-mac-complete-campaign-130552/

PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Jessica Hughes: Hello everyone, it’s Jess. We’re back today with Fork & Lens for our final episode of 2020. As we roll here into the holiday season, we thought it best to take a little break and that way we can bring you some fresh new content in 2021. But today we’re going to kind of kick it back, we’re bringing the team in and we’re going to talk about the old “Get a Mac” campaign. And, I think that even though this is delayed, if you will, by several years. I think it’s really applicable because we still see brands kind of trashing other brands, and just kind of our internal team conversation about whether or not that’s okay still and how to go about it. So I’m not going to tell you what we talked about instead, I’m going to let you kind of just tag along and listen in. So here we go.

Welcome to the Fork & Lens podcast brought to you by Viscul. Oh, smells delish!

Jessica Hughes: Welcome back, team.

Jay Basinger: Hello

Meagan Blasdell…: Hi.

Randall Hughes: Hello.

Carolina Fudala: Hi.

Tyler Gladhill: Hey team.

Jessica Hughes: All right, so we’re in for a lively conversation today. We are kicking it back a little bit with our creative critique, and we’re going to talk about Apple’s “Get a Mac” campaign. You remember that ad campaign with a nerdy man representing the PC and the cool hip guy that was the Mac? So, let’s talk about this and if you aren’t familiar with what we’re talking about today, the link to the segments will be in the show notes below. But, let’s talk about this. What was the essence of this? Why did it work? Why didn’t it work? Let’s dig in.

Carolina Fudala: I have a question first. Has anyone seen these commercials in their daily lives before this? Before the-

Jessica Hughes: Yes. I’m old enough to remember this.

Carolina Fudala: You have? Are you serious. Okay.

Randall Hughes: Have you not, Carolina?

Carolina Fudala: Those were the first time I had seen that.

Randall Hughes: What! Oh, no!

Tyler Gladhill: Oh gosh.

Randall Hughes: Oh man, I am old!

Carolina Fudala: I don’t know when these came out.

Jay Basinger: I was about to say a joke, if you haven’t seen them you we’re in a coma for like… It’s like all that was on for years.

Carolina Fudala: Do you know what year they came out?

Jay Basinger: I have a bad [crosstalk 00:02:33].

Carolina Fudala: Maybe I shouldn’t be admitting this. I saw them.

Jessica Hughes…: I think I was in high school. Does that seem about right for my age?

Randall Hughes: So we won’t age everybody here.

Jessica Hughes: I asked what year, I didn’t say…

Jessica Hughes…: That seems right, Jay, Meagan… Tyler do you remember them?

Tyler Gladhill: Oh yeah, yeah. No I…

Carolina Fudala: I know who Justin Long is.

Randall Hughes: This was before he was famous.

Jessica Hughes: Yes this was before he was famous.

Randall Hughes: 2006, it says, is when the “Get a Mac” campaign advertised.

Jessica Hughes…: Oh okay, I was in college.

Randall Hughes: It ran from 2006 to 2009, three years of non-stop “Get a Mac”. That’s why we’ve all seen it so much.

Jessica Hughes: It’s etched in our minds forever.

Tyler Gladhill: Yeah, I’m pretty it sure it jumped his career.

Jay Basinger: Yeah.

Jessica Hughes: Yeah.

Jay Basinger: We need to tell the audience that Carolina is 14. She’s a prodigy, that’s why we hired her.

Jessica Hughes: All right, Carolina let’s set this up right. Where were you, what were you doing in 2006?

Carolina Fudala: Oh my God. I was definitely not their target demo. I couldn’t afford a Mac.

Randall Hughes: That’s hilarious.

Carolina Fudala: I was a child.

Jessica Hughes: All right.

Carolina Fudala: Nevermind.

Jessica Hughes: That’s too funny. All right. So obviously this worked for them if they ran it for three years.

Meagan Blasdell…: Yeah.

Jessica Hughes: So let’s talk about why it worked.

Meagan Blasdell…: I think it worked for the time and I say that because when I first watched them wait, previous past Meagan watched them, I loved them. I thought they were great. But now when I watched them again as an adult, I didn’t like them as much. They felt so exclusive, I guess, like they were trying to exclude a certain group of people and they were trying to make fun of that certain personality type. And I don’t know, maybe I just resonated with somewhere in the middle between those two people. And it almost felt like in, at least in the first ones, that it almost felt mean.

Jessica Hughes: Yeah.

Meagan Blasdell…: Like they were, they were not like, they just weren’t very nice to that other personality type that they kind of manifested with this guy. But then as you watch them and you go through, the relationship builds and then it becomes kind of funnier and like kind of joking around with your friends, more of that kind of vibe.

Jessica Hughes: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meagan Blasdell…: But I wish they would have started there because in the beginning, I just like, it made me not like that commercial. It made me not like the product and it just kind of left a bad taste in my mouth.

Jessica Hughes: Yeah. I feel like it almost had like the age old pose, the age old question of whether or not the comparison and throwing the competition under the bus sort of mentality gets you anywhere, in the market. Like it just brought me back to that. Whereas I think, especially with the advancement of social media, we’ve gotten so much more into this lifestyle segment of things, that we’re looking for genuine, authentic stories, not the well, he said, she said, I’m better than that person kind of argument.

Randall Hughes: I think you have to though, like Meagan said, if you think back to 2006 and the time when these actually ran they were combating something that, whether done right or wrong was something that was being done to them, in the entire marketplace. Everybody would always say, “oh my gosh, I run a business there’s no way I’m buying a PC.” I’m sorry, “there’s no way I’m buying an Apple.” And that’s where that transition started to happen. So Apple said, okay, well, if our target audience is creatives, we’re just going to focus solely on that. Over time, they gained such popularity and their products became better and better that now the world’s open to them more, on the business side.

But I think there’s still people who remember a campaign like this and like Meagan said, well they just like, well, they bashed everything. I think this is where you got that big divide of like I’m an Android user, I’m an Apple user and we’re not even going to talk about it because I’ll fight you all day type mentality, but you know, I don’t know.

Jay Basinger: They ended up doing Android ones too, right? Did they introduce an Android character, at a certain point?

Meagan Blasdell…: Yeah. That like bug looking thing.

Jay Basinger: Yeah. But I mean, like these type of commercials, it just made me think, I thought they actually extended this campaign to Android then but maybe not. Maybe I’m just imagining that.

Randall Hughes: Yeah. I don’t know. But I know the Android went… Because Apple was the bigger market. Android ended up doing the same thing. I can’t remember the Samsung or who, I think it was Samsung did a very similar campaign in a different style against iPhone because iPhone was the biggest. I think its whoever’s the biggest thing is the small guy has to come up and target them a little bit. I don’t believe that’s the way that marketing should be done necessarily. But I think that that’s what happens sometimes.

I remember, I don’t think it really happens that much anymore, but whenever people would stand in line for three days to get the newest iPhone. Then I remember when Galaxy, I’m pretty sure it was Galaxy, came out with that campaign. It was similar to this where there was a guy there and he walked up with the Galaxy to some of the people in line to show off all the features that his phone could do. I don’t know if you remember those but it’s a very similar concept. And it was very tongue in cheek, just like these of like, well, I can do that. My phone already has that. I got it already, you know, stuff like that. So.

Meagan Blasdell…: Yeah, I think that there’s a really delicate line with negative advertising too. And a lot of that is just because I don’t think they age well. You never know where the future is going to go. And the same with this, like yeah, okay, that made sense in 2006, but looking back at it now, it just feels so different.

Jessica Hughes: Yes.

Randall Hughes: I think it did push the PC market though, to become better. You’ve watched PC do a lot more creative things. There’s actually a lot of features now that I think there’s, I mean, we’re Mac users, that there’s things that PCs do now that I’m like, Oh man, I wish my Mac would do that. So there’s all these different things, but I think it, I think it did help kind of push to have the divide, not be so strong over time.

Jessica Hughes: So one thing that these two kinds of personas that are in the commercial transcend into the unpopular versus popular mentality. And I think this may be one, the elements that transcends the time period, the 15 year age, or gap that we’ve had since he’s first started airing. But everyone’s a little obsessed with what is cool or what is on trend, from the way we dress to the items we purchase. And how do you think that advertising in this capacity creates an impact on people from the aspect of, I want to do what’s on trend. I want to do what’s cool. And do you think that mentality has changed over the course of the past 15 years?

Tyler Gladhill: Its almost like if you want to be cool then like, I guess you’re thinking this is the right way… Like this is the right way to do things like this is what’s going to get me to where I want to be, I guess. I think that really builds up a lot of brand loyalty. It’s like, once you sort of decided these guys are cool, these are me and I’m not these other guys then I think that’s when… like in these commercials they don’t even really show products. You know, it’s just like, you don’t want to be associated with this is almost more impactful than you want to be associated with this. I don’t know. Like almost the opposite, if that makes sense.

Jay Basinger: Yeah. I think that technique still is being used, its almost that way. It’s like showing what you don’t want to be.

Tyler Gladhill: Right.

Jay Basinger: I feel like I’ve seen more often than trying to like, yeah… It’s easier to do that than try to show what’s cool, you can actually end up looking silly if you think you’re… It’s a lot more riskier to try to be the cool person, as opposed to just being like the observationist that seems just like, Oh, look at that, that one’s not working. And then hope it translates into people believing you always does work then.

Carolina Fudala: Yeah. It’s a fine line. Like Meagan was saying, cause like either way it could, it may not age well, just depending on the circumstances.

Tyler Gladhill: Yeah.

Randall Hughes: I think this is why you’re starting to see an insurgence of lifestyle advertising and the storytelling aspect of it because I don’t think brands want or have the ability to tell people what’s cool anymore. I think they can just showcase it being in a life and you can choose to say that’s my life or not my life and I want to have that thing in there. But I also think that when it comes to saying something is cool or not I think a lot of brands are leaving that up to the influencers.

Like Carolina was saying you hit up a YouTuber and you say “Hey, can you do something with my product?” And it’s in their voice, it’s their thing. You know, it’s, it’s how they’re talking about it. And they can make you believe that there’s something in there for their audience. So they’re tapping into this different type of communication. I also just to go back to the actual piece itself, I think the whole bullying situation that we’ve been trying to combat over the last 10 years would totally knock this campaign now because I think the idea of things being different has been far more embraced. And the idea of like calling somebody out for a certain characteristic seems so weird right now. And I think that’s why Meagan, why you had the response to it. Cause like we’re so ingrained now to think like everybody should be accepted and they should be and how do we run down that and still… You can’t really say our product is better than that when you just show it in life and it goes from there.

Meagan Blasdell…: Yeah. That’s a really good point. And one of the last videos in that series on the YouTube link is them at the very end and it’s a Christmas pointed commercial or like a winter holiday commercial and they’re animated. And that to me resonates so much better than an actual, like human standing in front of me because I relate so much to that human that when they’re poking fun of them or they’re excluding them, it feels so much more abrasive. But then it’s like, suddenly you transform that into an animation. And it feels a lot better, a lot softer and a lot more acceptable.

Jessica Hughes: That’s interesting…

Randall Hughes: Oh, go ahead Jess.

Jessica Hughes: No, go ahead

Randall Hughes: I was going to say, I know when Disney remade, Beauty and the Beast, there was a big challenge in that, in transitioning that because some of the characters were not so nice to each other. There were punching and throwing and throwing them in the mud and all this, and whenever you translate that to real human beings, it’s just not have the same effect. So that’s interesting what you said about the animation just puts you in a different state of mind.

Meagan Blasdell…: Mm-hmm

Jessica Hughes: So do you say that they casted in the commercial the right way? Like, did they have the right actors? Should they have animated all of them? Like if we were to redo this campaign in today’s age, what would we change?

Randall Hughes: The whole thing.

Carolina Fudala: Yeah, everything.

Randall Hughes: I don’t think it works at all anymore. It was genius in the moment. It was great, but I don’t think it works today.

Jay Basinger: It really was a precursor to the influencer though. I mean…

Jessica Hughes: It was.

Jay Basinger: They were just using Justin Long as an influencer in that way, that was actually kind of brilliant. Now they just wouldn’t even bother. They would just, if they wanted people to review products they would just have a million other ways they can do that almost organically. They don’t even need to pay people. People are doing it for them pretty much, you know?

Randall Hughes: Yeah, absolutely.

Meagan Blasdell: I think that the chemistry works.

Jay Basinger: Yeah, yeah.

Meagan Blasdell: Especially when you got into the point where they were kind of poking fun at each other, where they were like, Oh, where the PC was like, I promise this time it’s going to be different. And then it went back through like the decades where he was like, I promise it’s going to be different. It’s going to be different this time. It’s 100% going to be different this time. Like that chemistry really played off of each other. But the whole premise of it didn’t work for me personally.

Carolina Fudala: Yeah.

Randall Hughes: Yeah. That again, like we said before, I think in the time that it ran, it was genius and it served its purpose. That’s why they… I mean it was obviously it was enormously successful, but I think the times have changed so much. And back to your original, or to your point, Meagan, that you said about how it doesn’t feel as timely now and when you’re poking fun at other things, it just, I don’t know. It can, it can change it dramatically over the years. Now that it doesn’t need to work anymore. It’s a very old campaign. So I don’t know how much relevance there is to that, but I don’t know.

Jay Basinger: Yeah. One of the other interesting things too, is also sort of, key, Apple products being new and everyone was so amazed about how simple they looked and how they were just white, so much white and the art direction of the commercial really hits home, that idea too. It’s just sort of like, they’re on a white background and they’re really just leaning into that. Full blast just saying everything we do is so clean, so simple and it’s just part of their brand voice. I thought that was a really obvious choice they made, in terms of art direction.

Randall Hughes: Yeah. And I, I actually remember that really taking off then because there was just a huge insurgence of commercials where they were just people standing on white screens and pretty much everything kind of had that look to it for a while. Just the same way when the iPhone came out and they had the little apps and every icon on the planet looked like a little app icon.

Jessica Hughes: They even did a really good job of that, even through wardrobe and the haircuts and the glasses and all those different things. Like the PC guy came out feeling so cluttered and then Justin Long standing there, and he’s just like simple jeans, t-shirt no big deal.

Randall Hughes: Yeah.

Jessica Hughes: All right, so how could we translate this into something that can inspire someone within the food industry today?

Meagan Blasdell: I think personification is good. I like that. I dig that, especially if you can be creative and witty and intelligent with it you can go a long way with that. But I do think that now bringing in negativity might not be the best move, at least as food and beverage, because one person isn’t going to just be married to one type of food or one type of drink. They’re going to try all of them. You just have to prove that yours is a little bit better.

Jessica Hughes: Yeah.

Randall Hughes: But I do believe that they did a lot of research to find out exactly who they needed to talk to and really hone in on the audience that they need to reach. And I think that’s a big point in today’s world is there’s so much noise out there and you need to know exactly who you’re talking to and severely push that content directly to them. I think Meagan, you had said earlier that they spoke so dramatically to that one audience, but at that time that’s who they needed to speak to. So I think that’s a note, whether we like the campaign now or not, it’s a note for brands to… don’t be afraid to target one audience, that’s going to get you further and get you more recognition.

Meagan Blasdell…: It’s kind of like that. Do one thing and do one thing really well.

Randall Hughes: Yeah, yeah,

Carolina Fudala: Yeah.

Jay Basinger: I could see that working…

Jessica Hughes: Yeah. Jack of all trades master of none.

Randall Hughes: Yeah. Gotcha.

Jay Basinger: You can see this working for the current sparkling water battles that are happening. This could work.

could see some funny Qua versus Bubly, you know?

Tyler Gladhill: Yeah. Yeah. I think even though in today’s age, we’re so against bullying guys, we could work if it’s like a product that we all genuinely know is bad.

Jay Basinger: Yeah, yeah.

Tyler Gladhill: Like you said, like the seltzer, like somebody representing seltzer water and somebody representing soda, like I can see that possibly working,

Jay Basinger: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tyler Gladhill: But also you could offend the larger people population, there’s is always somebody you get offended.

Jay Basinger: Yeah. It’s almost like your bullying has to be so niche that it almost isn’t bullying anymore. It’s almost just like inside jokes. You know what I mean? I guess there’s this fine line between something that we’re all on board with, that’s still kind of cutting, but at the end of the day with no-one’s actually offended. Which I think you could get there. I think like, I think you could do that with water and soda in a way that wouldn’t make people who drink soda feel horrible about themselves. Bet…

Meagan Blasdell: I think so too, especially if you can be like, I don’t know, a little bit self deprecating, like you can make fun of yourself. Soda water is just trying so hard to be to the soda, but it never be soda, but technically he’s better on the inside.

Jay Basinger: Yeah, yeah.

Meagan Blasdell…: You could do something like that.

Randall Hughes: I think you’re always going to have products compared to products. And I don’t think that that has to be so negative, but I think in this particular campaign, it really came down to the fact that it was two people talking to each other. They were trying to give it a personality and that’s what makes it feel so bully-ish right now.

I mean, I recently saw a commercial. It was hilarious. It was for a soap company, like an all natural soap company. And they were hardcore targeting old spice because they had a thing of all these different bottles on a table and they were red and blue and they just said soap on them. But they had the little sailboat and he took them in and swiped them away from the table because they were talking about their own natural products. So I mean, obviously these things still happen today. And I remember that just from a couple of days ago and it was funny. And I don’t know, but you have to be in on the joke a little bit. You have to know, to know that brand and maybe agree with the things that are in that product versus the one they’re trying to sell.

Jay Basinger: I think you could team someone up against themselves. Even like, sort of the whole sort of what I think I look like, but what I actually look like…

Randall Hughes: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jay Basinger: Mean kind of thing could be kind of funny.

Meagan Blasdell: Yeah. I think like subjective versus objective. Like if you’re making fun of things that are objective, then that’s great because it’s based in facts. But if you base it off of you’re trying to make something funny because its subjective matter, then it’s kind of feels a little too personal, maybe. Like, Oh, I’m kind of a nerd so that affects me. But if you’re laughing about it because Macs are cluttered or I’m sorry, PCs are cluttered, then that makes more sense. I guess.

Jessica Hughes: Yeah.

Randall Hughes: I know a few designers in the room that can make a Mac pretty cluttered.

Jessica Hughes: I don’t think it would be limited to designers, maybe as in general.

Tyler Gladhill: Yeah.

Jessica Hughes: All right. Well on that note, I think we will call it quits for today. Thank you so much for joining us. Take care.

Tyler Gladhill: See ya.

PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Introduction: Hey everyone. So, back before COVID started and back before 2020 even started, we had this wild idea to start a podcast. It wasn’t just going to be a podcast that you could tune into on iTunes and Spotify and other platforms to hear content, but something that really brought you along for the ride and brought you into our studio kitchen, and into orchards, and produce fields, and restaurants where we got to really live and breathe food, whether it was on the farm or making its way to the table. And really share in that conversation that happens in those circumstances.

Unfortunately, because of COVID, we are kicking off this podcast in more of a traditional podcast way. We are going to be bringing you solo casts and dual cats with Randall and I, as well as content from behind the scenes with our team. And we’re also going to bring in some amazing guests that I cannot wait to share with you. So Randall and I are here today to give you a little bit more insight into what is in store as we progress through season one this week and into season two, starting next week, and then as we hit season three here at the end of the month.

Welcome to the Fork and Lens Podcast, brought to you by Viscul. Oh, smells delish.

RANDALL: Yeah, so like Jess said, we wish we could have brought you into our kitchen right now and did some cooking with you and talk shop a little bit, but things change. The world has changed a little bit in the past few months. Yeah, so we’re changing up a little bit. But we’re excited to bring you the content that we were able to record. And yeah, I think, it’s still really relevant and we’re excited about it.

JES: We are excited about it and there’s something so special about sharing in that experience. But at the same time, I think these conversations are still so beneficial and especially in light of what we have experienced as a society over the past several months, being able to have these conversations with people is what keeps us moving forward, I think.

RANDALL: Yeah, absolutely. And I love some of the conversations that we’ve had, talking about how businesses have come up through, how they’ve changed, how they’ve grown.

JES: How they’ve struggled.

RANDALL: Yeah, how they’ve struggled. And in light of recent times, I think it’s especially relevant today to learn that other companies … even if you’re looking at a company, you say, “Man, I don’t understand how they got there.” You can look at the struggles that they’ve had and you can relate to it a little bit and you can maybe understand, take a step forward about how you’re going to run your business.

JES: Right. And it’s not just to being able to run the business, but it’s also being able to align your team around a common vision and about being able to manage a marketing team or influence the direction of a brand as you pivot it, or you form it for that matter. So really this podcast is for everyone who is a solo shop just trying to get their feet wet in this industry up through large corporations and marketing managers and CMOs. Trying to pivot, and make a difference, and manage a team, and get all those voices and chefs in the kitchen to align in one direction. We’re so excited to not just bring people from the industry in, but also executive coaches, and consultants, and agency search organizations and all these different people with different perspectives that can really help you get a leg up on the competition.

RANDALL: Yeah. We even brought in one of our good friends, Seth, who’s another designer to get his perspective.

JES: Yes.

RANDALL: We don’t want everything to be one sided from us. We’re an agency. Seth runs his agency very differently than we do. And I think that the perspective on how to do that is incredible.

JES: Yeah. And you’ll be hearing from Seth tomorrow. Actually, no, just in a little bit. He’s the second episode, so he’ll be out today.

RANDALL: Yep.

JES: Anyways, we hope that this podcast really brings you some joy, some comradery that you aren’t alone in this, and we also hope it gives you some perspective. And please let us know what you think. Leave us some reviews. And we can’t wait to hear from you. Take care.

As always every meal is better shared. Feel free to share a fork and lens with your team, colleagues, and friends. If you enjoyed today’s message, please subscribe to get weekly access to new recipes for creative and marketing success. You can also check us out at forkandlens.co or viscul.co. Until next time.

PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Introduction: Hey everyone. So, back before COVID started and back before 2020 even started, we had this wild idea to start a podcast. It wasn’t just going to be a podcast that you could tune into on iTunes and Spotify and other platforms to hear content, but something that really brought you along for the ride and brought you into our studio kitchen, and into orchards, and produce fields, and restaurants where we got to really live and breathe food, whether it was on the farm or making its way to the table. And really share in that conversation that happens in those circumstances.

Unfortunately, because of COVID, we are kicking off this podcast in more of a traditional podcast way. We are going to be bringing you solo casts and dual cats with Randall and I, as well as content from behind the scenes with our team. And we’re also going to bring in some amazing guests that I cannot wait to share with you. So Randall and I are here today to give you a little bit more insight into what is in store as we progress through season one this week and into season two, starting next week, and then as we hit season three here at the end of the month.

Welcome to the Fork and Lens Podcast, brought to you by Viscul. Oh, smells delish.

RANDALL: Yeah, so like Jess said, we wish we could have brought you into our kitchen right now and did some cooking with you and talk shop a little bit, but things change. The world has changed a little bit in the past few months. Yeah, so we’re changing up a little bit. But we’re excited to bring you the content that we were able to record. And yeah, I think, it’s still really relevant and we’re excited about it.

JES: We are excited about it and there’s something so special about sharing in that experience. But at the same time, I think these conversations are still so beneficial and especially in light of what we have experienced as a society over the past several months, being able to have these conversations with people is what keeps us moving forward, I think.

RANDALL: Yeah, absolutely. And I love some of the conversations that we’ve had, talking about how businesses have come up through, how they’ve changed, how they’ve grown.

JES: How they’ve struggled.

RANDALL: Yeah, how they’ve struggled. And in light of recent times, I think it’s especially relevant today to learn that other companies … even if you’re looking at a company, you say, “Man, I don’t understand how they got there.” You can look at the struggles that they’ve had and you can relate to it a little bit and you can maybe understand, take a step forward about how you’re going to run your business.

JES: Right. And it’s not just to being able to run the business, but it’s also being able to align your team around a common vision and about being able to manage a marketing team or influence the direction of a brand as you pivot it, or you form it for that matter. So really this podcast is for everyone who is a solo shop just trying to get their feet wet in this industry up through large corporations and marketing managers and CMOs. Trying to pivot, and make a difference, and manage a team, and get all those voices and chefs in the kitchen to align in one direction. We’re so excited to not just bring people from the industry in, but also executive coaches, and consultants, and agency search organizations and all these different people with different perspectives that can really help you get a leg up on the competition.

RANDALL: Yeah. We even brought in one of our good friends, Seth, who’s another designer to get his perspective.

JES: Yes.

RANDALL: We don’t want everything to be one sided from us. We’re an agency. Seth runs his agency very differently than we do. And I think that the perspective on how to do that is incredible.

JES: Yeah. And you’ll be hearing from Seth tomorrow. Actually, no, just in a little bit. He’s the second episode, so he’ll be out today.

RANDALL: Yep.

JES: Anyways, we hope that this podcast really brings you some joy, some comradery that you aren’t alone in this, and we also hope it gives you some perspective. And please let us know what you think. Leave us some reviews. And we can’t wait to hear from you. Take care.

As always every meal is better shared. Feel free to share a fork and lens with your team, colleagues, and friends. If you enjoyed today’s message, please subscribe to get weekly access to new recipes for creative and marketing success. You can also check us out at forkandlens.co or viscul.co. Until next time.